VST parameters limited to 200?

lalo · Unread post by **lalo** » 17 May 2006, 13:45

Hi,

i have a plugin made in synthmakers wich contain an array of 256 points to do hand-draw waveforms...
in usine i see 200 parameters..
other host show only the parameters i've excplicitely told synthmaker to show

thanx

YouTube · Unread post by **senso** » 17 May 2006, 14:56

could you send me one of your vst to help me to understand what happend.

contact@sensomuscic.com
thanx

lalo · Unread post by **lalo** » 17 May 2006, 16:57

ok olivier,

i'll do tonight when i'll back home...
now i'm here in a 30 minutes break at the school where i teach

thanx

YouTube · Unread post by **senso** » 20 May 2006, 10:52

hello,
Some vst have a huge list of parameters. (ie: 1000 for reaktor!).
It can cost a lot of CPU for almost nothing...
I have linited the number of params to 200.
Isn't it enough?
Some of Usine users, ask me to limited the number of params to reduce the list.

What is the best limit? 100,200,256?

lalo · Unread post by **lalo** » 20 May 2006, 11:14

hi olivier,

well...my plug has 258 parameters

and the 2 i need are the last ones...
i on't have a way in synthmaker to manage the order...
i'll try to investigate the issue and i'll be back to you in a few days...

anyway...why the parameters affect the cpu even if they aren't modulated at all?

thanx

lalo · Unread post by **lalo** » 12 Aug 2009, 14:42

daaang!
i'm workin' with fabfliter twin 2 and i can't just access a loto of its parameters.
to me this is still an issue

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 12 Aug 2009, 15:43

I've just test this plugin, ( nice gui and modular possibilities )
actual limitation is 512 parameters , thats why this stop after the XY lfo ...
fabfilter have 884..!!

next update will give you access to 1024parameters....

amiga909 · Unread post by **amiga909** » 12 Aug 2009, 15:49

had this problem also in a very few cases (eg. drumatic).

maybe there is a problem usine handles params as input pins: more access, more flexibility but higher cpu costs.
as i get senso, its better to limit the params cause there are so few exceptions. and practically - nobody needs to automate 1000 params. in the age of hardware midi, i also got along with 128 params..

workarounds:
- for twin2 there would be a workaround if u use the midi inlet and midi-learn the params u need
- use a vst host plugin (such as phrazor) and wrap ur SM plugin

maybe it would be an idea if usine had a special module: a vst container where u can choose 512 params from all existing params of a vst (and if param limitation saves cpu, why not set the standard to 200, or even less)?

nelson · Unread post by **nelson** » 12 Aug 2009, 16:28

yes! please, please

develop something like VST container!
in reaktor its sometimes problem to acces to proper parameter because of limit
it will be nice to choose only that parameters you need at the moment ... just checking them on all parameters list should be ok.

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 12 Aug 2009, 17:25

1024 visible parameters will no cost so much cpu...
specially for future version...

nelson · Unread post by **nelson** » 12 Aug 2009, 21:26

maybe something like this:

1024 parametrs limit is ok but scrolling to the last of them is little bit hard
( and the last is important parameter: latency)
so drop down list with checkboxes is, i think, good proposition.

YouTube · Unread post by **senso** » 12 Aug 2009, 23:26

good suggestion!

Clearscreen · Unread post by **Clearscreen** » 13 Aug 2009, 03:59

nelson wrote:maybe something like this:

http://www.dunia.pl/par.gif

1024 parametrs limit is ok but scrolling to the last of them is little bit hard
( and the last is important parameter: latency)
so drop down list with checkboxes is, i think, good proposition.

WOW - that is a great suggestion!!! it doesn't seem likely that anyone would actually end up automating 1,000 odd parameters does it? being able to select those you need would surely be an effective solution? the only problem i can see is how many should usine 'see' to begin with - the 'check/uncheck' all boxes you've got there seems to be a good helper so you can start from scratch though. also, say you come back and add another parameter to the existing ones you don't want it to be inserted into the existing parameter list as it'd mess up your existing connections - it'd need to be added to the end of usine's list of parameters to make sense wouldn't it? very cool stuff if we can get it to work!
i know using symptohm that getting to the last of it's 1,000 odd parameters has been a problem for me before so i'm really interested in seeing a solution for this! YAY!!

amiga909 · Unread post by **amiga909** » 13 Aug 2009, 10:35

this looks very nice indeed, thanks nelson

eventually it would be clever to replace the old drag modes (drag with all or without params).

usine could always load a vst with the minimal design (such as 'program', 'midi'), and we could add params as needed.
further it would be terrific if we had a 2-window design with all active and inactive params. all active params could then be in a moveUp-moveDown list, and even be renamed.

of course we can already build interface templates, but this would be nice for reusing plugin setups in different interfaces

but, imho, to make sense, it should foremost save cpu.

as Clearscreen says, it should be reliable of course.
dont know if this is a pit of snakes.. afaik no other modular host supports direct manipulation of parameter visibility and naming?
afaik (??) there isnt any host that handles vsts nicely which have hundreds of params or dont have proper labels?

lalo · Unread post by **lalo** » 14 Aug 2009, 16:50

great nelson!
i agree with your suggestion!
a.

sunship · Unread post by **sunship** » 21 Nov 2009, 06:59

+1 for a system to pick the pins you want - great idea.

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