I'm just reading about a new 6-core AMD chip. Some people really like AMD, others say the architecture is not as advanced as Intel's iSeries chips. Some say your RAM speed and HD speed matters more than processor speed anyway....
Anybody have a sense of how these differences affect usine?? Just wondering, as I will probably build a new computer for Usine in the coming months.
cheers,
-eric
How many cores?
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woodslanding
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I have no clues about new 6 amd proc, but by the past i often went to AMD over intel with relatively equivalent results for much lower prices, meaning equivalent price returns better perfs on AMD.
I think all matter, better have "all overall good" than an extreme 8core with 2gb ram and slow HD.
I think those 6Amd look very interesting, with 4-8gb and a 7200/ or ssd if you have funds too will make a killer machine.
I went to coreI7 wich is in fact a quad but AMD 6core will have a better price/ratio performances.
for now best machines i ever worked on (i work in 3D studos, that frequently test hardware for renderfarms,) are windows Mac Pro DualPeryn 8 core, 10 percent more powerfull than HP same based workstation (but that are lower price) and new AMD 6 core should be even more powerfull for even twice the price of a macpro if you build your own PC, then need to check motherboards reviews/test, gigabyte/msi beeing generally good, maybe then take a build in video card cheaper if you don't need that much video apps.
as usine is multithread, need ram and fast hd access, it's quite equivalent to general audio apps i supose but seeing results i got now on a i7 4gb over previous dualcore 2gb,(pure200percent faster) you won't be disappointed for sure by a fresh new 6amd, that should approch 3x faster. the question for me would be more hardrive over ssd if you use lot of bandwith using lot of wav data, might worth checking ssd, here im ok with a fast 7200 hd that will return more storage for equivalent price, and 4-8gbram, but if for a desktop i would go directly go for 8gb, will be appreciated on 64bits W7.
there are two schools, but personnally im on booth, i would go for amd without pbs. (high series), picking the funds gain to take 8gb and a fast Hd/sdd.
I think all matter, better have "all overall good" than an extreme 8core with 2gb ram and slow HD.
I think those 6Amd look very interesting, with 4-8gb and a 7200/ or ssd if you have funds too will make a killer machine.
I went to coreI7 wich is in fact a quad but AMD 6core will have a better price/ratio performances.
for now best machines i ever worked on (i work in 3D studos, that frequently test hardware for renderfarms,) are windows Mac Pro DualPeryn 8 core, 10 percent more powerfull than HP same based workstation (but that are lower price) and new AMD 6 core should be even more powerfull for even twice the price of a macpro if you build your own PC, then need to check motherboards reviews/test, gigabyte/msi beeing generally good, maybe then take a build in video card cheaper if you don't need that much video apps.
as usine is multithread, need ram and fast hd access, it's quite equivalent to general audio apps i supose but seeing results i got now on a i7 4gb over previous dualcore 2gb,(pure200percent faster) you won't be disappointed for sure by a fresh new 6amd, that should approch 3x faster. the question for me would be more hardrive over ssd if you use lot of bandwith using lot of wav data, might worth checking ssd, here im ok with a fast 7200 hd that will return more storage for equivalent price, and 4-8gbram, but if for a desktop i would go directly go for 8gb, will be appreciated on 64bits W7.
there are two schools, but personnally im on booth, i would go for amd without pbs. (high series), picking the funds gain to take 8gb and a fast Hd/sdd.
I'm in the intel kicks AMD butt school of thought. That being said, I haven't tried or even researched AMD's latest offerings which for all I know could be kicking intel ass by now. For sure I regret having bought tablet computer last year with an Athlon X2 cpu which in my opinion has to be one of the slowest "modern" cpu's in existance!
One thing to keep in mind with all these multi-core / hyperthreaded cpu's is that you have to always strategicly plan load distribution, which for Usine running on say a intel i7 with hyperthreading enabled means making sure that your cpu load is spread over at least 8 tracks for maximum efficiency.
I myself wish there were stupid fast 6Ghz dual core processors available, this would make load management way easier for audio work but it seems engineers have to a certain extent hit a Ghz wall and have decided to slather consumers with more cores and threads which in my opinion is a sucky solution for audio work....what next? 16 core CPU's with 2 threads per core is going to impossible to effectivly use all cpu power for audio work.
Hard drives are currently the bottleneck in any modern computer, but IMO ssd still has a ways to go before it can be considered the ultimate solution. The trouble with ssd is that it has a limited number of write cycles and it also can lose performance very quickly under normal use, often requiring a lot of messing around to keep them in peak condition, at least that is my experience so far with using two OCZ vetex drives in a raid 0 configuration. On a plus side, if you use them mainly as a drive that is mostly for read operations, they maintain better performance and audio/ sample libraries etc can load very quickly.
I keep my OS on a mechanical raid 0 drive and then all of my applications, project files and most used samples etc on the ssd's.
Keep in mind that no matter how much memory you throw in a computer, even with a 64 bit OS, a 32 bit application can only access 4GB. If you have 8 or 32GB, you can use what's left after what the OS uses as a ram disk or to have other application running but that is about it so no need to go overboard unless you just want to be futureproof. There is however one very handy VST tool here http://jstuff.wordpress.com/jbridge/ that allows you to run VST's in a separate memory than the host, which can in theory allow you to load as many memory hungry VST's as your 64 bit computer will allow!
A very popular choice for DAW use seems to be a gigabyte motherboard coupled with either an intel i5 or i7 cpu. I do however recommend trolling the web researching your choices before laying down the cash.
One thing to keep in mind with all these multi-core / hyperthreaded cpu's is that you have to always strategicly plan load distribution, which for Usine running on say a intel i7 with hyperthreading enabled means making sure that your cpu load is spread over at least 8 tracks for maximum efficiency.
I myself wish there were stupid fast 6Ghz dual core processors available, this would make load management way easier for audio work but it seems engineers have to a certain extent hit a Ghz wall and have decided to slather consumers with more cores and threads which in my opinion is a sucky solution for audio work....what next? 16 core CPU's with 2 threads per core is going to impossible to effectivly use all cpu power for audio work.
Hard drives are currently the bottleneck in any modern computer, but IMO ssd still has a ways to go before it can be considered the ultimate solution. The trouble with ssd is that it has a limited number of write cycles and it also can lose performance very quickly under normal use, often requiring a lot of messing around to keep them in peak condition, at least that is my experience so far with using two OCZ vetex drives in a raid 0 configuration. On a plus side, if you use them mainly as a drive that is mostly for read operations, they maintain better performance and audio/ sample libraries etc can load very quickly.
I keep my OS on a mechanical raid 0 drive and then all of my applications, project files and most used samples etc on the ssd's.
Keep in mind that no matter how much memory you throw in a computer, even with a 64 bit OS, a 32 bit application can only access 4GB. If you have 8 or 32GB, you can use what's left after what the OS uses as a ram disk or to have other application running but that is about it so no need to go overboard unless you just want to be futureproof. There is however one very handy VST tool here http://jstuff.wordpress.com/jbridge/ that allows you to run VST's in a separate memory than the host, which can in theory allow you to load as many memory hungry VST's as your 64 bit computer will allow!
A very popular choice for DAW use seems to be a gigabyte motherboard coupled with either an intel i5 or i7 cpu. I do however recommend trolling the web researching your choices before laying down the cash.
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woodslanding
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thanks so much gurulogic---that is good info. Honestly, I will keep looking on the web, but there are so few reviews that have any sense of the demands of audio.... I was certainly thinking of an i7/gigabyte until I heard about the new AMD chips.....
But if I'm not using a lot of .wav playback, do I care about HD speed so much?? Does the OS read from disk in normal use, with plenty of RAM available? I do have a sampler in the rig, but cpu always seems to run out long before the sampler audio does.
I do basically 100% reads for sample data (I edit the actual samples pretty rarely) so SSD might work well for me. I'm waiting for prices to come down, tho.
-e
But if I'm not using a lot of .wav playback, do I care about HD speed so much?? Does the OS read from disk in normal use, with plenty of RAM available? I do have a sampler in the rig, but cpu always seems to run out long before the sampler audio does.
I do basically 100% reads for sample data (I edit the actual samples pretty rarely) so SSD might work well for me. I'm waiting for prices to come down, tho.
-e
Custom Ryzen 5900x MATX build, Win10, Fireface UFX, touchscreen
Custom 2 manual midi keyboard
Usine, Kontakt, Reaktor, Synthmaster, Byome, Arturia, Soundtoys, Unify
Custom 2 manual midi keyboard
Usine, Kontakt, Reaktor, Synthmaster, Byome, Arturia, Soundtoys, Unify
Two 7200 rpm drives in raid 0 is usually plenty fast for most things. Others might recommend a raid configuration that offers reduncy in case of drive failure, but personaly I just opt for religious backups to an external sata drive. Heck, if you want really blazing fast you could have 4 drives in raid 0!
About the AMD 6 core cpu's, I guess we'll see how they perform when they hit the market. They might end up being a cost effective i7 alternative.
Oh yea, the i7 cpu's overclock like a mofo! It would usually be a piece of cake to overclock any i7 920 from 2.66Ghz to 3.66Ghz without any voltage increase to the chip and only a moderate increase in tempurature. Mine will run 100% stable at 4.2Ghz though I back it down a bit from that just to be on the safe side. Overclocking isn't everyones cup of tea but for those so inclined, it offers huge performance gains as it is done by increasing the Bclk—the base clock which is basicly like turning up the bandwidth of the entire processing chain.
If you were to indend any overclocking, it is wise to buy memory that will be running at it's rated speed when the system is overclocked so that you also can utilize the benefits of memory that runs at the higher frequency.
About the AMD 6 core cpu's, I guess we'll see how they perform when they hit the market. They might end up being a cost effective i7 alternative.
Oh yea, the i7 cpu's overclock like a mofo! It would usually be a piece of cake to overclock any i7 920 from 2.66Ghz to 3.66Ghz without any voltage increase to the chip and only a moderate increase in tempurature. Mine will run 100% stable at 4.2Ghz though I back it down a bit from that just to be on the safe side. Overclocking isn't everyones cup of tea but for those so inclined, it offers huge performance gains as it is done by increasing the Bclk—the base clock which is basicly like turning up the bandwidth of the entire processing chain.
If you were to indend any overclocking, it is wise to buy memory that will be running at it's rated speed when the system is overclocked so that you also can utilize the benefits of memory that runs at the higher frequency.
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woodslanding
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I don't think I need blazing disk speed, that's my point. I was hoping to be fast enough with a single drive, possibly 10k. Is this still likely to be a bottleneck, if I'm not streaming much sample data from disk? I run a lot of VST instruments, but only have two hands to play them with, so I don't get the notecounts you do when sequencing. What else taxes the disk besides sample streaming?
I'm building this into a keyboard, so space will be at a premium. I did find a pretty good cooling system that will fit. Are you using the stock cooler on the i7?
I'm building this into a keyboard, so space will be at a premium. I did find a pretty good cooling system that will fit. Are you using the stock cooler on the i7?
Custom Ryzen 5900x MATX build, Win10, Fireface UFX, touchscreen
Custom 2 manual midi keyboard
Usine, Kontakt, Reaktor, Synthmaster, Byome, Arturia, Soundtoys, Unify
Custom 2 manual midi keyboard
Usine, Kontakt, Reaktor, Synthmaster, Byome, Arturia, Soundtoys, Unify
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